Feature

KENNETH GAMBLE & LEON HUFF; THE HISTORY BOYS

A new licensing agreement between Sony BMG and Philadelphia International Records – which brings together the entire catalogue in one place for the first time - has resulted in renewed interest in the great music that was created in Philly during the ‘70s and 80’s and beyond as well as in PIR’s owners and founders, Kenny Gamble & Leon Huff.

As all good soul music lovers know, PIR’s vaults are full of timeless classics from some of the true legends in the world of R&B including Lou Rawls, Patti Labelle, The O’Jays, Teddy Pendergrass, Jean Carn, Archie Bell & The Drells and Bunny Sigler among others.

During a recent trip to Los Angeles, Gamble & Huff sat down with B&S’ David Nathan (who did the first B&S interview with the duo in London in 1973) to talk shop, reminisce and reflect on over forty years of music making…

B&S: Can we talk a little about the artists you worked with before you started PIR in 1972?
Let’s start with Jerry Butler…

KG: We knew Jerry because of the tremendous career he had, first with The Impressions and then as a solo artist. We used to see him at The Uptown Theater here in Philly but we really got close to him when he was playing at Peps show bar. Huff and I showed him the song 'Lost' and he liked it but it was not complete. We said, ‘let’s finish it together’. Jerry’s very talented as a lyricist, very fluent and easy to give direction to…

B&S: Dusty Springfield?

LH: We were doing some independent producing for Atlantic Records. We had been successful with Archie Bell & The Drells with “There’s Gonna Be A Showdown.” They asked if we could do more acts for them…we did The Sweet Inspirations, Wilson Pickett. That’s when they gave us the opportunity to work with Dusty.

B&S: Did you think of her as a British singer?

KG: No…we were looking at her as a great voice. It was a little sensitive for us since we were used to work with people like Wilson Pickett. If we had kept working with her we could have done great things. We recorded “Brand New Me” with her and “Hope We Can Get Together Soon” which we did with Dusty before we did it with Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes. She was easy to work with…

B&S: How about Laura Nyro who did the album “Gonna Take A Miracle” with you and with [the group] Labelle?

LH: She wanted to with us. It was her idea to do the album – she wanted to use the aura we had created in Philly.

KG: Laura was very talented, temperamental. You never knew what she would come with. She would come to the studio and say, ‘I don’t know if I want to work today’ and we would said, ‘But you gotta – we have all these musicians here!’ And she would cry just like that! She wanted to do the song “Gonna Take A Miracle.” Of course, we knew Patti & Bluebelles. Laura had already worked out a lot of arrangements with them at the piano. It was a different kind of thing for us since we were used to writing all the songs and doing all the arrangements. I think we complemented her and helped her get what she wanted and I think she did an excellent version of [The Originals’ song] “The Bells.”

B&S: And how was Wilson Pickett?

LH: He had a reputation for being fiery. We were into his sound. But it wasn’t complicated: we always had to be in control and we knew how to handle him. And we had success with “Don’t Let The Green Grass Fool You” and “Engine, Engine Number Nine.”

B&S: And finally, Dee Dee Warwick. You did quite a few songs with her…“I’ll Be Better Off Without You,” “It’s Not Fair” and “I’m Gonna Make You Love Me.”

KG: We were very disappointed with [what happened with] “I’m Gonna Make You Love Me.” She was with Mercury Records and they were a small company. You’ve got to promote the records and they didn’t promote that record the way they should have…and then the Temptations and Supremes had an instant smash with the song. She was sweet…those were good songs we had forgotten about until you mentioned them…

B&S: OK, let’s talk about how some of the PIR artists came to you… The Jones Girls?

KG: Through Diana Ross. They used to be background singers for her and she was playing the Shubert Theater in Philly. She called and said, ‘I have a group for you…I’m not taking them to Motown.’ I said, ‘I’ll come over and check them out.’ I thought they were really good. Huff met with them too…and we got them on the first record, “You’re Gonna Make Me Love Somebody Else”.
Diana was shocked! She said, ‘I should have had that song!’

B&S: How about Dexter Wansel?

KG: We met Dexter through [keyboard player] Roland Chambers who had a band named Yellow Sunshine. When I met him and showed me some of his music. I thought he was very good from a technical standpoint so we started feeding him work. I think Dexter could have been the next Quincy Jones…

B&S: And Lou Rawls?

KG: [A major disc jockey and promoter] Jimmy Bishop was working with us and he called and said, ‘Lou’s out of his contract’. We said, ‘Go get him, let’s see what we can do with him.’ He had the kind of voice we could work with, that baritone, raspy gospel voice. We got him on that first record (“You’ll Never Find Another Love Like Mine”) and it brought a rejuvenation of his whole career.

B&S: The Three Degrees…

LH: We worked down at Swan Records with Richard Barrett and we played on the group’s sessions there. When their contract was over, he brought them to us…

B&S: And Phyllis Hyman?

KG: I was always a fan of hers. Patti Labelle had left us and gone to MCA and we were regrouping. We took a shot with her: she was a very colorful artist, very unique and temperamental. We felt we could have done even more and we liked where we were going with her…

B&S: At different times, PIR signed some interesting artists. I’m thinking about Edwin Birdsong, Bobby Rush…

KG: They were a little bit of a departure for us. Roy used to work with Roy Ayers. He was a very creative person. Sometimes you’ve got to take a shot with someone who is a little left field. We had an outlet and gave him the opportunity. The album didn’t sell at the time we released it. But now, Kanye West has sampled a song from there and one of the songs is being used for a commercial! I told him recently, "I knew it would pay off some time." Bobby Rush? He was a good blues singer. And then, Don Covay was another artist like that, a little different... a great writer, very talented and a funny guy. He came into the studio one day with a doctor’s uniform on! I asked him, "Are you here to do musical surgery"?!

B&S: How did the idea for MFSB come about?

KG: The band had a few names over the years, The Romeos, The Family. As a band it started to mature, it became more of an orchestra than a rhythm section. We always had the theme of family. We came up with the name 'MFSB' and some people thought it meant something else – thought it stood for profanity! That was intentional! But it meant, ‘Mother, Father, Sister, Brother.’ The idea for doing instrumental albums came through us working at the ‘school’ of Cameo-Parkway. They had a label which put out instrumental versions of Top 10 hits…so that’s where we got the idea. Jay-Z just used one of the MFSB tracks ('Something For Nothing'). Our intention now is to go back and take the vocals off some of the tracks we did and do a whole series of albums that way…

B&S: Are there any artists you wish you had signed to PIR that you didn’t?

KG: Barry White and Earth, Wind & Fire – they both came to us…

LH: Prince – he sent us a tape. Back then, we were moving so fast…

KG: There were a lot of people who could have signed us as producers. I remember when we were trying to get a job at Mercury and they said, ‘yeah, right’! And even Cameo-Parkway…

LH: They used to run us out of the building - they thought we were thugs because we wore these big hats!

B&S: During the ‘70s, you did some great concept albums at PIR…”War Of The Gods” by Billy Paul, “Ship Ahoy” by The O’Jays….

KG: They were designed as concepts. “Ship Ahoy” …all the songs related to the whole experience of slavery…even “For The Love Of Money” since money was what was behind slavery in the first place… Those albums had a story to them…we were trying to put together albums with themes, social commentary, love songs and great dance records [all in one album]..

B&S: Many people have done your songs – any favourite versions?

KG: Third World gave a whole new meaning to “Now That We Found Love”…

LH: Aretha did a helluva version of “Brand New Me”…

B&S: When was the first time you realized your music was having international impact?

LH: With the success of The Three Degrees’ “When Will I See You Again”…

KG: And meeting you back in 1973 for our first British magazine interview! We were amazed that people [in Britain] knew so much about us and our work!

B&S: Is there anyone you would have liked to work with that you didn’t?

KG: We had some good opportunities that slipped away. Miles Davis used to call all the time and he had this unique, deep voice. He would call and say, ‘I want to work with you guys.’ I would say, ‘Come on down, I got a concept for you…of doing an album with MFSB.’ And then we wouldn’t hear from him for months…

LH: And the original Temptations. This was after the original members had left. We were so close to doing it. I remember seeing them all sitting there in Gamble’s office – Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin, Otis, Melvin…everytime they came to town, we would go see them. And we were close to working with Bob Marley before he died…

B&S: What’s your most recorded song?

LH: “When Will I See You Again”…it’s been done in many languages…there’s even a classical version of it…

B&S: And finally what are you up to next?

KG: We’re trying to promote the catalogue, brand the ‘Sound Of Philly’. We’re working with Sony BMG on putting out a lot of music that has been in the can – a ‘live’ Patti Labelle album, whole albums on The O’Jays, Lou Rawls….

Listening to the incredible legacy of music Kenny and Leon have created is wonder enough, sitting with these two musical masters is truly as much a rewarding experience in 2008 as it was for me back in 1973. With the rejuvenation of the PIR catalogue, a whole new generation can discover what us soul music folks have known for years: the label and its owners are responsible for a phenomenal part of the rich history of contemporary rhythm and blues.
Words DAVID NATHAN